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	<title>Comments on: Debugging RIA Services</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/</link>
	<description>Simeon Simeonov on entrepreneurship, innovation &#38; venture capital</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 15:31:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kathleen Erickson</title>
		<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/#comment-17812</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kathleen Erickson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://simeons.wordpress.com/?p=348#comment-17812</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I thought I saw somewhere that there is no RIA debugging tools.  Well...that actually is not true.  RIA AppBuncher Debugger provides client-side debugging and this product line is being expanded to provide end-to-end RIA testing.  A free trial of RIA AppPuncher Debugger can be downloaded for free here:  

http://www.themidnightcoders.com/products/ria-apppuncher/overview.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought I saw somewhere that there is no RIA debugging tools.  Well&#8230;that actually is not true.  RIA AppBuncher Debugger provides client-side debugging and this product line is being expanded to provide end-to-end RIA testing.  A free trial of RIA AppPuncher Debugger can be downloaded for free here:  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.themidnightcoders.com/products/ria-apppuncher/overview.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.themidnightcoders.com/products/ria-apppuncher/overview.html</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Колесников</title>
		<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/#comment-17534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Колесников]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 06:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://simeons.wordpress.com/?p=348#comment-17534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Спасибо. Добавлено в закладки]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Спасибо. Добавлено в закладки</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dmitriev</title>
		<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/#comment-17533</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dmitriev]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://simeons.wordpress.com/?p=348#comment-17533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Оценка 5, базару ноль]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Оценка 5, базару ноль</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: More on RIA Debugging &#171; HighContrast</title>
		<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/#comment-17518</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More on RIA Debugging &#171; HighContrast]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 05:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://simeons.wordpress.com/?p=348#comment-17518</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Flex, Flex debugging, RIA, RIA debugging trackback  A month ago a wrote about one approach for debugging RIAs across platforms such as Flash/Flex, AJAX, SilverLight, etc. Mike Nimer has a post soliciting ideas [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Flex, Flex debugging, RIA, RIA debugging trackback  A month ago a wrote about one approach for debugging RIAs across platforms such as Flash/Flex, AJAX, SilverLight, etc. Mike Nimer has a post soliciting ideas [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Simeon Simeonov</title>
		<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/#comment-17517</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simeon Simeonov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 04:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://simeons.wordpress.com/?p=348#comment-17517</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike, yes, it&#039;s a new world and I believe many are not thinking deeply about some of the complexities ahead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, yes, it&#8217;s a new world and I believe many are not thinking deeply about some of the complexities ahead.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Brunt</title>
		<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/#comment-17508</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Brunt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://simeons.wordpress.com/?p=348#comment-17508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Simeon and all others commenting here, thanks for this detailed and thought provoking posting.  I have lived in the troubleshooting world since working at Allaire back in the late 90&#039;s, it is what I do day in and day out.  My concerns about where we are going, like it or not, is into a quasi client server world where we have no control over the network we will run on.  One avenue of thought for me, which was highlighted by Mike Labriola at the B-Flex conference is a scenario where Flex DataServices could have to communicate with a 1,000 distributed end-points and maintain data synchronization.  My belief is that not enough of us are thinking through the full ramifications of where we are going.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simeon and all others commenting here, thanks for this detailed and thought provoking posting.  I have lived in the troubleshooting world since working at Allaire back in the late 90&#8242;s, it is what I do day in and day out.  My concerns about where we are going, like it or not, is into a quasi client server world where we have no control over the network we will run on.  One avenue of thought for me, which was highlighted by Mike Labriola at the B-Flex conference is a scenario where Flex DataServices could have to communicate with a 1,000 distributed end-points and maintain data synchronization.  My belief is that not enough of us are thinking through the full ramifications of where we are going.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alirio Boquin A</title>
		<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/#comment-17504</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alirio Boquin A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://simeons.wordpress.com/?p=348#comment-17504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi there, I am CF Developer since 2001 and started using CFAjax this year and was a really Kunfu fight, I mean thanks FireBug I finish the project. The cfdebug window it&#039;s not a big help.

I started with Flex about year and half, I work very fine for me help me with the errors I always use CF for backend. I use RemoteObject object and I build a function on fault=&quot;failError(event)&quot; event, this catch everything happens and really makes my life easy. I just simple show inside a Alert box the errror.

The code looks like this.

private function failError(event:FaultEvent):void{
			Alert.show(&#039;Error &#039; + event.toString());
			}		

In my little experience CF and Flex Rocks...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there, I am CF Developer since 2001 and started using CFAjax this year and was a really Kunfu fight, I mean thanks FireBug I finish the project. The cfdebug window it&#8217;s not a big help.</p>
<p>I started with Flex about year and half, I work very fine for me help me with the errors I always use CF for backend. I use RemoteObject object and I build a function on fault=&#8221;failError(event)&#8221; event, this catch everything happens and really makes my life easy. I just simple show inside a Alert box the errror.</p>
<p>The code looks like this.</p>
<p>private function failError(event:FaultEvent):void{<br />
			Alert.show(&#8216;Error &#8216; + event.toString());<br />
			}		</p>
<p>In my little experience CF and Flex Rocks&#8230;</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Simeon Simeonov</title>
		<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/#comment-17486</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simeon Simeonov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://simeons.wordpress.com/?p=348#comment-17486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Charles, yes, this is something along the lines of what I have in mind. I want the industry to end up in a better place than it currently is at. I want the millions of developers working on RIAs to be more productive. If SmartClient can offer good guidance, that&#039;s wonderful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles, yes, this is something along the lines of what I have in mind. I want the industry to end up in a better place than it currently is at. I want the millions of developers working on RIAs to be more productive. If SmartClient can offer good guidance, that&#8217;s wonderful.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charles Kendrick</title>
		<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/#comment-17479</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles Kendrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://simeons.wordpress.com/?p=348#comment-17479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Simeon,

Logs != disk.  SmartClient retrieves server logs from an in-memory revolving buffer attached as a standard Log4j Appender.

Logs != unstructured.  Log4j files are sufficiently structured to parse, and viewers already exist.

I think you&#039;re still mystifying most readers as to what you&#039;re getting at, and in my case, it&#039;s certainly not due to lack of experience building complex RIAs (SmartClient shipped as the user interface to major BI products 5 years ago).

Perhaps if you went into more detail on some concrete scenarios that you believe are amenable to standardization.

For example, if you are connecting SmartClient to a non-Java server and you have no pre-existing services, we provide a complete protocol that includes signaling validation errors, session expired errors, stale cache errors, and general errors, with message formats available for JSON, XML or SOAP.  Is that the kind of thing you have in mind?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Simeon,</p>
<p>Logs != disk.  SmartClient retrieves server logs from an in-memory revolving buffer attached as a standard Log4j Appender.</p>
<p>Logs != unstructured.  Log4j files are sufficiently structured to parse, and viewers already exist.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re still mystifying most readers as to what you&#8217;re getting at, and in my case, it&#8217;s certainly not due to lack of experience building complex RIAs (SmartClient shipped as the user interface to major BI products 5 years ago).</p>
<p>Perhaps if you went into more detail on some concrete scenarios that you believe are amenable to standardization.</p>
<p>For example, if you are connecting SmartClient to a non-Java server and you have no pre-existing services, we provide a complete protocol that includes signaling validation errors, session expired errors, stale cache errors, and general errors, with message formats available for JSON, XML or SOAP.  Is that the kind of thing you have in mind?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Simeon Simeonov</title>
		<link>http://blog.simeonov.com/2008/09/16/debugging-ria-ajax-flex-services/#comment-17474</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simeon Simeonov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://simeons.wordpress.com/?p=348#comment-17474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Charles/Sean, I&#039;m not saying that you *cannot* debug RIA services by looking at logs. I&#039;ve done plenty of development that way. 

What I am saying is that we can measurably improve RIA developer productivity by (a)  establishing a &lt;i&gt;common&lt;/i&gt; format/schema for common types of diagnostic output information combined with a common viewer for that type of information and (b) have a way to maintain some of it potentially automatically &lt;i&gt;in memory&lt;/i&gt; on the server as opposed to having to persist everything in log files. 

I don&#039;t see how a world with no structured logging capabilities, when every app server, framework and tool provides its own way of dealing with diagnostic output leaves developers better off...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles/Sean, I&#8217;m not saying that you *cannot* debug RIA services by looking at logs. I&#8217;ve done plenty of development that way. </p>
<p>What I am saying is that we can measurably improve RIA developer productivity by (a)  establishing a <i>common</i> format/schema for common types of diagnostic output information combined with a common viewer for that type of information and (b) have a way to maintain some of it potentially automatically <i>in memory</i> on the server as opposed to having to persist everything in log files. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see how a world with no structured logging capabilities, when every app server, framework and tool provides its own way of dealing with diagnostic output leaves developers better off&#8230;</p>
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